Fifth Estate show probes death of Joe Grozelle

cbc.jpg

joe.jpg23160 Joseph (Joe) T Grozelle, a third-year Royal Military College cadet, went missing Oct. 22, 2003, from his dorm. His body surfaced three weeks later, Nov. 13, in the Cataraqui River, beside the Kingston campus. His father, Ron Grozelle hopes the CBC News: The Fifth Estate episode keeps pressure on police agencies to keep searching for answers. “My sense is they (Fifth Estate) are not going to have the answer,” Grozelle said from his Chatham-Kent home. “I think they will raise a lot more questions. The Fifth Estate episode, called Shadows of Doubt, airs Wednesday at 9 p.m. (EST) on CBC. “The more people who are aware of what happened, the better,” Grozelle said..

Source

TELEVISION: DOCUMENTARY: THE FIFTH ESTATE: SHADOWS OF DOUBT
An evening of missed leads and mystery

14 Comments

  • William Wells

    October 15, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    It may seem hokey but I would advise Ron to enlist the services of one or more reputable psychics. Deeply moved by this story….

  • Kelly Weedon

    October 16, 2008 at 6:50 am

    Personally, I’m outraged, and ashamed to be Canadian, at the entire chain of events. Unless the RMC is involved, where are they with this issue at present? Why are they not pushing to have this resolved? What really went on with the NIS investigation? Who told who to do what? Where are the expert witnesses that will support that Joe was not suicidal? Where is the science and forensics to give a cause of death? Why is this left to the family to push to resolve? The CBC did a fantastic job bringing attention to this tragedy and the stuggle of Joe’s family to try to find answers. If this could happen to Joe, it could happen to your son or daughter. This needs to be kept in the spotlight until the family is provided a reason why, after sending their son to one of the most reputable schools in Canada, he comes “home in a box”.

  • Anonymous

    October 16, 2008 at 7:28 pm

    Not a good week.The traffic accident that took the life of Karen Ritchie occurred just up the road from our house and then we watched the Fifth Estate program about Joe Grozelle.Both very upsetting.
    The ex-cadet weekend that was highlighted in the program was the weekend the class of 57 celebrated 50 years of entry.50 years is along time and I don’t think I appreciated how different things are at the college today.The events that played out in the reporting of his disappearance and contact of his parents is not what would have happened 50 years ago.That is very disturbing to an “old brigader”.I know one has to be a little skeptical about investigative journalism.How much is accurate,I don’t know. The comment that RMC was patterned after West Point was news to me as well.

  • robert martin

    October 22, 2008 at 10:55 am

    Canadians are easily the most tolerant people on earth. We regularly tolerate the intolerable, which could explain why we continue to endure al-Jazeera North, a state-funded cesspool sometimes referred to as the “Canadian” Broadcasting Corporation. At the very bottom of this cesspool is a vile lump of excrement called the Fifth Estate, a pathetic parody of journalism presided over by a pretentious, unprincipled imbecile named Lynden MacIntyre. MacIntyre seems to have learned his craft from Leni Riefenstahl and Josef Goebbels, since he employs every sleazy propaganda trick developed by those two masters of deception. Everything about the Grozelle report was a lie, especially the ludicrous claim that the Fifth Estate cared about the Grozelle family. MacIntyre and his fellow gangsters used the Grozelle family in an utterly shameless fashion to promote their wretched aim of discrediting an honourable Canadian institution. Ex-cadets of the RMC have, in the past, not shied away from confronting arrogant, lying bullies like MacIntyre. Between 1939 and 1945, thousands took up arms to confront one gang of arrogant, lying bullies. Permit me to suggest that there is but one course of action open to patriotic Canadians who still have backbones: we must work tirelessly and relentlessly to rid ourselves of this hideous ifestation.

    rob martin, 5196

  • William Woodward

    October 23, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    Like most I was quite moved by the Fifth Estate Report on Joe Grozelle, and I am quite upset at the absolute lack of answers provided to the Grozelle family. A basic cause of death, where not provided today, is completely unacceptable. A probable cause of death is without question, bizarre.
    If there exists some ex-cadets who have the truth about what was presented and can provide some light to the Grozelles, then I suggest they come forward and do so. If the reporting was inaccurate, then I for one would like to hear from the Grozelles about it.
    I cannot comment on Mr MacIntyre’s reporting accuracies, any more than most, however, I think it is at least fair to welcome criticism and rise above it. Raging against criticism is the very invite to avoid the main issue. How did Joe perish? And what is the institution of The Royal Military College and DND doing to solve the mystery? There should be no shame, disgust, or privacy on the part of DND and the Grozelle family to find an answer.
    Ron Grozelle, Lynden MacIntyre, and all possible theories, are not the enemy of DND or RMC. Narrow-minded quick and predetermined investigation is the enemy here. Mr MacIntyre did no disservice to the college at all, in my opinion, and as much as he may be disliked, he asked a relevant question, which deserves an honest response.
    I want to know what happened, and I don’t care who finds out or by what means. I support any method, and I have ZERO fear of anything tarnishing the continuation of RMC as a unique and excellent facility where I am proud to have graduated from.

    I support the Grozelles 110% and as an ex-cadet, encourage everyone to due the same, which in turn demonstrates the very heart of the College. Truth. Duty. Valour.

    William Woodward
    16510

  • Paul Maly

    April 26, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    I had been watching for some more insight into this tragic and unexplained loss of life. As a former member of the military, familiar with some aspects of the military colleges (RMC is what is left of what was once three such schools across the country), I was suprised to see how, at the time of the discovery of this cadet’s remains, there was no decisive answer to how or why this promising cadet could have lost his life. And even in the report on The Fifth Estate (which I believe was honourably carried out), some possibilities were not mentioned. It’s curious to me that they weren’t raised on the air.

    There was a time when “hazing” was a frequent occurrence on the military college campuses – part of an accepted practice within the colleges, which would have been utterly condemned at any civilian institution of equal merit. See incidents of “hazing” at American colleges, particilarly as a facet ten or twenty years ago at certain college men’s fraternities. Most institutions ban this activity now, and it may not be as commonplace as it once was, and this is probably true of the military college as well. Uncommon might not mean “unknown”, however, and codes of conduct would discourage ex-cadets of shedding light on the practice.

    Earlier news on Joe Grazelle’s disapperance featured one fact – he wasn’t a swimmer, and would have shied away from water at all times. But other news on tonight’s show – there wasn’t water in his lungs when his body was found. Yet that’s where his body was found. Whether it wears well on the institution or whether it was not, one could logically question a finding of probably suicide. How does one die of one’s own hand, have one’s body found three weeks in water but no water in one’s lungs?

    I’m glad the 5th Estate show was done. This is a “cold case”, and it’s likely that at some future time, when someone chooses to speak out, the cause of this tragic loss will be known. My sympathies are with Joe’s family, his girlfriend at the time of his death, and his friends and fellow cadets. This death is everyone’s loss.

  • Luciano

    June 20, 2009 at 12:37 am

    Hi all,

    Reporting a mistery is interesting, but in order to educate the public ( and maybe to help the family of those who suffered) it will be beneficial to go over some details and try to come up with the best scenario of what could have happened based on the facts you have at hand:
    One student is saying that all of Joe’s clothes were in the room in the morning. Joe is discoverd in the lake with shoes and clothes and no water in his lungs. Those statements tells you everything:
    – the body was kept in a safe place in the institution – why body and not Joe alive? There is no reason to keep someone alive in a locked place where someone else might find him. Once found he can tell you what happened.
    – one person cannot keep a body in this institution without at least a second person to notice
    – you have to keep the body in the perimeter, I assume it is a military institution so you cannot just transport bodies withot any one noticing – it is a risk a killer will not assume unless forced by situation
    – once you have 2 persons involved , the possibility of having more persons involved is greater – at some point the head of the institution or a leader will know about it
    – why they did not make it public? because it was an accident – Joe might have been involved in a fight because he wanted that fight. A fight over a girl over some basketball position, ..
    – if you are thinking about suiciding without leaving a note(which is very rare) you want to make it un-noticeable so you do not wander naked when you are about to kill yourself
    – so if he did not leave the room naked, someone must have been in his room when the accident or the murder happened or they put the clothes back in his room after the accident happened outside the room
    – at this point you can start saying that his girlfriend may know something about all this – it could be very difficult and very dangerous to place items back in the room when someone else is in the same room/apart – a killer will not assume this risk when is not neccesary
    So here you have it all, most likley there was a fight which he asked for or he was willing to respond to a fight request. They decided to cover it up. Things like this happens often in the military

    It might be a simplistic view but in most of the cases common sense and logic is the answer

    I am deeply shocked by the way the officuilas has handled this situation and it tells me again that this is a cover up. I feel sorry for the family.

  • Sue Crew

    September 6, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Did anyone ever figure out where he was the morning that he skipped class and then reappeared at lunch? who was he with and why? For two years he never missed a basketball practise and classes and then he is gone for the morning???someone must know where he was that morning…that will lead to answers.Such a heartbreaking story and another cover up by a political institution.

  • Scott

    February 9, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    On February 8 2010 Col. Russell Williams was charged with 2 counts of murder and several other charges. Williams also attended RMC at the same time Joe Grozelle went missing. This should be Huge when it comes to this bringing closure to the family.

  • Cindy C

    April 11, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    I am wondering the same as Sue Crew (#9 posting sept 6,2009)
    Why and were was he that morning he skipped classes and the missed basketball practise?
    To the Grozelle family I am so sorry for your lose.Keep the faith. A psychic detective would be a good last resort, they solve many cases that other have not….all the best!

  • Lynn Decaire

    April 12, 2010 at 12:16 am

    I just watched the peice about Joe on The Fifth Estate….The NIS should be sued. The body needs to be looked at by a different coroner. Murder needs to be ruled out, not overlooked. Dad saw the body! Did it look like it had been in the water three weeks?(very swollen) Did it look like it had been in the water only a short time? I agree that an acredited psychic could tell you what happened.

  • Laura JF

    November 5, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    Our hearts and condolences continue to go out to the Grozelle Family. Our son is a Cadet, and this case has pained and haunted us for years. All for one and one for All. We concur with several of the others’ comments here re: enlisting the help of ACCREDITED PSYCHIC INVESTIGATORS to assist with finding answers and THE TRUTH in this most tragic case. After viewing the TV series “PSYCHIC INVESTIGATORS” we are convinced that people with this special psychic talent and ability could hopefully lead to THE TRUTH as to what happened to their treasured son.

  • Laura JF

    February 2, 2016 at 11:20 am

    Further to my previous comment, and to the PSYCHIC INVESTIGATORS TV SERIES, it appears that one of the most talented psychics is Nancy Orlen Weber RN. She has even been given a police badge, that’s how much she is valued by the detectives who work on cases with her. She lives in the USA, (New Jersey) according to her website, she is also a REGISTERED NURSE. Here is contact info we found on the web:
    Website: nancyorlenweber.com
    Tel: 888 266-9462
    Email: Nancyorlenweber@gmail.com
    ———————————————————————-

Leave a Reply